Just purchased a beautiful playing and sounding RD-227. But I am impatient in terms of waiting a few years for it to open up like all good guitars do in time. Hell, I'm approaching 70! So considering instant gratification is important to me as I age, what would be the simplest improvements I could make such as saddle, nut, pins, strings, etc. to extract every bit of sound out of that guitar as is possible. My goal is to live to 99 and be shot by a jealous husband. But just in case.................. Thanks
Best simple improvements for stock RD-227 ?
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 laocmo |
Best simple improvements for stock RD-227 ? |
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Posts: 22 (01/29/10 07:08 AM) |
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dmcowles |
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Posts: 3666 (01/29/10 08:22 AM) Admin |
It almost sounds like you aren't getting what you expected from your RD227. About the only thing you can do is experiment with a variety of mods and see what tickles you. My experience, echoed by many others, is that a guitar is going to sound about the same as you can expect after "opening up" only a bit more mature. Strings are the first thing I would suggest playing around with, since the RD227 comes stock with bone saddle. Changing the nut seldom makes any noticable difference in sound. I'm 67 years old, and like you I don't have a lot of time or patience to wait for the magic twanger to transform a guitar. I had an RD227 that had to go back due to the bridge pulling away from the top, but before that unfortunate event I found it to be a little more heavily built than my Blueridge BR140, and it didn't have the bark I was looking for. I just returned it and didn't have it replaced. I sure like how it felt and played, though.
Dave
You forget it and I'll forget it, but I'll remember it, and don't you forget it!
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george kraushaar |
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Posts: 1080 (01/29/10 08:42 AM) |
If it's got one of those gummy pickguards, you can replace that with a lighter one made of a harder plastic.
I went ahead and voided the warrantee on mine by reshaping the top braces. I end up removing a lot of wood and reshaped the whole affair and sanded smooth. It sounded pretty good when I got done. I lvoe the feel and general design as well. |
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intune66 |
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Posts: 4233 (01/29/10 09:18 PM) Moderator |
Along the lines of what George mentioned with brace shaving, I've heard that this guy does that and is pretty good as well as affordable......
http://www.bryankimsey.com/ I don't know offhand if there's a waiting line for this work or not though...... Easy enough to send him a quick email. The Recording King that I owned was in need of some brace work as it was quite heavy and IMO overbuilt, inhibiting the tone. |
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Fstpicker |
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Posts: 1403 (01/30/10 03:21 PM) |
Isn't the nut and saddle on this guitar made of bone? I don't know if the saddle is compensated though.
Bryan is the "go-to" guy for repair and/or improvements who has a good track record. May have to wait a few months though. I'd contact him directly to find out. Jeff |
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george kraushaar |
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Posts: 1084 (01/30/10 05:01 PM) |
My 227 had a compensated bone saddle. I believe the new models have enclosed saddles, while the older ones were long, open ended saddles; very traditional looking but certainly more difficult to adjust.
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laocmo |
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Posts: 24 (02/11/10 12:54 PM) |
I experimented a little by replacing the plastic bridge pins and the rather poor looking bone saddle with Tusq. It is now brighter across all the strings. It is very loud and pleasant to listen to but I still would like to give that big E string a little more sustain to that low rumble it now has. Probably a poor comparison, but imagine hitting a big bell with a soft wooden mallet. I'm looking for the sound I would get if I used a rock hard maple mallet. Maybe 70 year old ears has something to do with it. Friends who hear it say it is just fine as is. But I think y'all no what I'm trying to say.
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dmcowles |
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Posts: 3722 (02/11/10 01:27 PM) Admin |
The RD 227s that I've played have not been strong on the bass end. I think it's just the nature of the beast. And...I think putting a Tusq saddle on it will make the bass end go the opposite way from what you're looking for. The only thing I can think of to bring out that bass is some voicing of the braces, and that's not something I'd suggest unless done by a very qualified luthier. And...it will void the warranty. (You gotta look out for those "Ands." )
You forget it and I'll forget it, but I'll remember it, and don't you forget it!
Last Edited By: dmcowles
02/12/10 05:51 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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george kraushaar |
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Posts: 1097 (02/11/10 06:32 PM) |
The results were worth voiding the warranty. But then again, I've done scores of brace shavings and I feel pretty comfortable with it.
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laocmo |
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Posts: 25 (02/13/10 12:06 PM) |
George,
Since the bracing is already scalloped, I might not need to do anything but use some 220 grit paper to take a little more off the scallops and smooth up the edges. How much in inches are we talking about here did you remove? Seems like a 1/16 inch reduction wouldn't take long. But any more and I'd be hesitant to proceed. As to the warranty, I wouldnt think of doing this to a Martin D-41 but I only paid $425 for my RD-227 brand new with one almost invisible finish flaw which I fixed in ten minutes with some 2000 grade paper and some white rubbing compound. |
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george kraushaar |
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Posts: 1099 (02/13/10 04:18 PM) |
What I did to my 227 (as I as have done to several BRs) is to lengthen the actual "scoop" towards the X in the front and toward the peak in the rear of the brace. I really didn't deepen the scallop at all. This created a longer, more graceful scallop which actually removed quite a bit of wood. I did the same to the rear tone bars, although it's difficult to reach the rear bar. Someone with longer. skinnier arms might have better luck.
After reshaping the braces, I sand them smooth and string her back up |
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laocmo |
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Posts: 26 (02/13/10 07:15 PM) |
George, did your bracing before or after look like the ones I pictured at: http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/laocmo/Recording%20King/?albumview=slideshow
? I seem to remember you saying your 227 was older than mine which was made late in 2009. Wondering if along with the new short saddle they might have adjusted the braces a bit also.
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gitnoob |
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Posts: 101 (02/13/10 10:28 PM) |
I'm planning on shaving the braces on my Silver Creek, so this is an interesting topic to me.
I think George is talking about extending the scallop towards the joint where the X braces meet, and that area of the bracing isn't really shown in your pics, laocmo. |
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george kraushaar |
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Posts: 1101 (02/15/10 08:37 AM) |
Looking at th photos, the scallop looks fairly long, although it's hard to see what it looks like as it approaches the X intersection. Another thing I did was to round off the braces, instead of leaving the scalllops so squared. I then sanded all the braces to a nice, graceful finish.
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laocmo |
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Posts: 29 (04/01/10 08:58 AM) |
I've added a better photo of the braces near the X crossing. It does appear that some wood could be removed, thus extending the "scoop" more towards the X. Anyone got a photo of Martin bracing close to the X to compare?
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Grenvilleter1 |
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Posts: 547 (04/01/10 01:47 PM) |
laocmo wrote: Now you got the idea buddy ! I, as well made an old Sigma "18" style start talking the talk by reducing the braces. Probably a stupid move on my part but after 5 yrs, the guitar has stood up very well and it certainly has a good bass presence now. Mine was braced more like a modern Martin with tapered bracing but I looked up some pics of older Martins bracings and ended up with a cross between scalloped and tapered bracing. At the time, the back was off the guitar so it was an easy process. Like George, I also smoothed out any sharp edges at the peaks and rounded them out. Brace shaving was not the only thing I did however so to what extent my brace modification had, I cannot tell. Next mission with it is to replace the lam back with a solid one. |
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 dmoss74 |
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Posts: 4 (04/03/10 09:24 AM) |
i see a lot of posts in these guitar forums where players can't wait for decades for their guitar to "open up", or to alter the bracing systems in their guitars.
from my own personal experience, if you don't like the tone of a guitar the way it comes, you probably aren't going to like it all that much better altering it. and having owned multiple guitars for decades, the "opening up" process is highly overrated. don't buy a guitar thinking you'll like the sound years from now. buy it because you like it now, and if by some small chance you like how it matures, then you are lucky. i think a lot of buyers are getting things based on internet recommendations now, rather than physically playing them first. if that's the case, you should get a trial period to make sure you like the tone of the guitar. that's just my $ .02 |
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dmcowles |
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Posts: 3889 (04/03/10 02:18 PM) Admin |
dmoss74, you make very valid points. The long-distance shopping for guitars that seems to be the norm today has its drawbacks, and whenever possible I want to play before I pay. I also want to love the sound of any new guitar before I plunk down my pesos, because it may or may not change over time.
I've had some mandolins in particular that dramatically "opened up" after being played-in for a while, but nothing as dramatic with guitars. There may be exceptions with red spruce-topped guitars, however. My experience with adi tops is that they are considerably more harsh and biting when new, and really do sound markedly different after a few years. Dave
You forget it and I'll forget it, but I'll remember it, and don't you forget it!
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dmoss74 |
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Posts: 5 (04/03/10 07:16 PM) |
dave,
yes, i have heard mandolins open up more too, and it seems reasonable, considering how small an area the top actually encompasses. and i believe the adi tops would open up more than say sitka. all my twenty plus year old sitka topped guitars haven't changed all that much tone wise, and i have played them plenty. :) |
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Fstpicker |
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Posts: 1538 (04/03/10 08:57 PM) |
Dmoss74,
I tend to agree with you...if the sound of a guitar doesn't do anything for you to begin with, it is hard to stay with it in the long run to see if it will get better. In my 42 years of playing guitar, the guitars I've liked in the long run, I've also liked their tone from the very beginning. The good thing is that if you get a guitar that sounds good from the beginning, there is a good chance that it will sound even better as you play it more and more over the years, as the wood begins to sound more like a guitar instead of just a tree that the wood came from. Jeff
Last Edited By: Fstpicker
04/03/10 08:59 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Stringmeister |
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Posts: 12 (04/16/10 06:48 PM) |
I've done two things to my RD-227 that each made a significant difference. Like many others, I pulled the pickguard and replaced it with a celluloid one. The stock guard is a soft, rubbery vinyl. Removing it made a very noticeable difference; more than I had expected. It became more clear and focused.
The tone still seemed a bit inhibited from what I though it was capable of, so I looked at the braces and compared them to my '44 D-28 and photos of other pre-war guitar braces. The top braces of the RD-227 looked fairly similar to the old guitars, although I suppose they could possibly be re-shaped a small amount. Where I saw the biggest difference was the two tall back braces in the lower bout. So I planed them down to the same height as older Martins, with the low-rounded profile. I was pleased with the noticeable improvement. Now it rings more freely, sounds less inhibited. Steve |
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