Adi Top on Laminate Wood Guitar?

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calstang66	Adi Top on Laminate Wood Guitar?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 9 (10/22/08 06:54 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : adi, laminate, adirondack It just seems strange, if not just a marketing tactic, to put an expensive/exclusive Adi spruce top, on guitars with laminated wood sides and bottoms (BR 60 AS and BR 70 AS) ? Is this because the high percentage of the influence upon sound characteristics comes from the top wood, so let's take that top wood to the higher level? But if that is true, then why do guitars sound so different, when they have the same spruce top, but different sides and bottoms (BR 40 vs BR 60 or BR 140 vs BR 160)? Maybe the Chineese manufacturer has to buy Adi spruce in bulk or bundles, so they have to have a place to put the inferior adi spruce, or the leftovers after making the BR 180As and BR 160As? Bill in East Tennessee Last Edited By: calstang66 10/22/08 07:04 PM. Edited 3 times.
Davo		#1	[-]
Posts: 39 (10/22/08 07:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It does seem a little strange, time will tell if its a good marketing tactic or not. I think the raw price of adi spruce vs sitka is fairly little-and the difference in sound is subtle as well. Id be suprised if an average adi/laminate sided guitar sounded better then an average all solid sitka topped guitar, but who knows.
intune66		#2	[-]
Posts: 531 (10/22/08 11:36 PM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Maybe there are guitars that sound better due to having solid wood bodies, but IMO the top is a HUGE factor in how a guitar sounds. Far bigger than anything else. To put it bluntly, if the top sucks the guitar SUCKS. I am still in disbelief at how good my BR-70 sounds. Laminated sides and all it blows away a ton of guitars I have heard hands down. Even my solid wood guitars (NO. They aren't Martins) dont quite have the punch IMO of that little guitar. It's the kind of thing you have to hear to believe. So to answer the question.......Ya. Why not put an Adi top on a laminate guitar? If it's made right it will be a killer sounding guitar, even if it isn't solid wood body. It may be a marketing tactic, but so is making a great sounding guitar. The BRs sell more for their sound than their looks, as most of us know. I think it's nice to be able to buy an affordable guitar with an Adi top. Not too many mfrs besides Blueridge even offer that option, and as I pointed out in another thread the Used prices on the lams (BR-40AS, 60AS) are ridiculously low IMO.....
Marco		#3	[-]
Posts: 55 (10/23/08 05:22 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	When they start installing Engleman Spruce tops on Lami's that will be something! But there's no denying that the Adi's sound a bit brighter and louder which works better for Bluegrass purists. It could be that these manufacturers who buy all their wood in bulk are simply testing the market. In the end it's a matter of units sold that determine the course of production. Since a manufacturer most probably needs to buys futures to lock in price point and quantity it's quite possible that they have to buy bundles that include other woods. I think it's way cool that Blueridge offers Adi/Lams. It sure is nice to have choices and options!
kydave		#4	[-]
Posts: 599 (10/23/08 06:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	When they start installing Engleman Spruce tops on Lami's that will be something! The Recording King Class I Series has solid Engelmann on a laminate body. Classic Series I A great introduction to a pre-war style acoustic guitar, the Classic Series I has fine craftsmanship and a natural acoustic tone. This guitar features a solid Engelmann spruce top, mahogany or rosewood back and sides, fully scalloped forward-x bracing and a mahogany neck. Last Edited By: kydave 10/23/08 06:29 AM. Edited 1 times.
Grenvilleter1		#5	[-]
Posts: 170 (10/23/08 10:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Anyone think Blueridge will offer and adi topped braz rosewood model ? I would have thought their "high end" stuff would have gotten the adi treatment as well.
kydave		#6	[-]
Posts: 600 (10/23/08 11:35 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Anyone think Blueridge will offer and adi topped braz rosewood model ? I would have thought their "high end" stuff would have gotten the adi treatment as well. Heck, I wonder if they are selling any of the Braz models anymore. Have you checked out the list price on them? WOW!
calstang66		#7	[-]
Posts: 10 (10/23/08 01:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I did not intend to imply that was a bad idea to put an adi top on a laminate guitar. I think the BR 70 AS with adi top, beautiful sunburst and laminate sides is an unbelievable guitar for twice the price. And if looking for Brazilian Rosewood, the BR 70 AS I believe does have the Brazillian Rosewood laminate sides and back, so the look is there. and the sound, well, compare it to Martins for $2200 and it looks still great to me. I do like the bling and abalone and the comfort of the smaller neck is heaven. As for and adi top on the BR 280 which has Brazillian Rosewood, I guess they don't offer that yet, and I wonder, maybe they already have low sales of the BR 280, and they figure adding an adi model for even more money, would not sell much, maybe. Billy - Greeneville, TN Assistants: Blueridge BR-180A , Martin Sigma DM-12-4 (12 String), Fender Stratocaster, RSQ MV-333 Karaoke Wanting: Blueridge BR or BG 140 and Guild F-212XL Jumbo 12 String Sunburst Last Edited By: calstang66 10/23/08 01:53 PM. Edited 1 times.
intune66		#8	[-]
Posts: 533 (10/23/08 03:30 PM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cal............ I think it's a very valid question. On some guitars it may be a waste to put an Adi top on honestly. I haven't noticed a real big difference in sound on my BR-60AS and BR-70. I tend to play the 70 more as I put a pretty nice pickup in it. Blueridge has an uncanny way of getting the most out of their guitars. Some time I will put the same strings on both guitars at the same time and do a thorough comparison of the 2. I like the sound of both of them but cant honestly say whether I like one's sound better than the other at this point. I'm just happy that neither turned out to be a dud, as I wasnt able to try either before purchasing........ I have yet to run into another Blueridge owner in New York State, let alone any sellers (used or new) in my general area.
Marco		#9	[-]
Posts: 58 (10/24/08 05:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh, great Dave, thanks a lot! Now I have a new target to hunt down and try. So RK has an Englemann topped one, eh? Anyone here tried or own one? Remember when there was a freeze on importing Brazilian Rosewood. For ten or so years from mid 90's on the only BR used was old stock and very expensive. Last Edited By: Marco 10/24/08 05:06 AM. Edited 1 times.
dmcowles		#10	[-]
Posts: 2018 (10/24/08 05:56 AM) Admin Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Marco wrote: Oh, great Dave, thanks a lot! Now I have a new target to hunt down and try. So RK has an Englemann topped one, eh? Anyone here tried or own one? Remember when there was a freeze on importing Brazilian Rosewood. For ten or so years from mid 90's on the only BR used was old stock and very expensive. That freeze has been in place since C.I.T.E.S. (International treaty on endangered species) was enacted in the late '60s. Any Braz rosewood imported here must have an attached documentation that it was legally harvested from already dead trees. There have been many questions raised regarding how legitimate that documentation is on Blueridge guitars, but Saga appears to have all their ducks in a row. RK has been using engelmann tops since they first came out, and my Revival is also engelmann. It is not an endangered wood. Honduran mahogany, however, is now on the endangered list, and is getting more scarce, and more expensive. Dave You forget it and I'll forget it, but I'll remember it, and don't you forget it!
intune66		#11	[-]
Posts: 543 (10/28/08 09:19 PM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I gotta laugh at how my BR-70 is supposedly made with "Brazilian" rosewood while the 60-AS is supposed to be made with rosewood (I forget how they advertise it). "Choice" rosewood maybe? Anyway if you look carefully at the color and pattern of the sides and back on the 2 guitars there really is very little difference in the 2. So much for laminated "Braz". I'd say they are both made of the same type of wood and it likely aint Braz. The excellent sound properties and prices paid for the 2 guitars make me not worry too much about it. The outer wood grain is actually very attractive, whatever it is...... I'll have to make up a name for it.......
TaylorMartinGuild.theunofficialma...		#12	[-]
Posts: 164 (10/29/08 04:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The newer specs state that the guitars are made from Choice Rosewood now. The older models could have had the top ply made from Brazilian but mine looks more like Cocobolo. Last Edited By: TaylorMartinGuild 10/29/08 06:48 AM. Edited 1 times.
dmcowles		#13	[-]
Posts: 2030 (10/29/08 05:14 AM) Admin Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Every one I've seen has looked very much like morado/pau ferro or cocobolo. Those are found in Brazil, and are sorta rosewoody... You forget it and I'll forget it, but I'll remember it, and don't you forget it!
intune66		#14	[-]
Posts: 544 (10/29/08 10:23 AM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I would imagine the older BR models at the Folk-of-the Wood website were made from the Braz (if any were). I'll have to compare mine to those old (but very detailed) pics. The models they picture have the older tuners that a lot of you have said were not so good.....
Marco		#15	[-]
Posts: 64 (10/30/08 10:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have to agree with the assessment that the so called Braz Rosewood on Blueridge guitars could be Cocobolo or Pau Ferro. However, I have made Rosewood tables that looked exactly like TMG's picture. Certainly it can't be considered select "prime" Rosewood as when you see blonder streaks like that it's usually the end of the board, (trunk end). That's my experience anyway. Regardless, they seem to have great tonal properties. Now when a log is spun on a lathe the log is chucked as close to center core as possible to eliminate waste. On thin plywood in order to get the book matched look I imagine the veneer is board cut rather than roll cut and has someone grading and matching the grains to accomplish this so Saga is within bounds to call their laminants select.
intune66		#16	[-]
Posts: 557 (10/30/08 06:16 PM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	In looking at the back and sides of a BR-160 (pics) as well as those on my 3 solid rosewood non-Blueridges there is no comparison in texture to the lower end BRs. For some reason I had it in my head that the BR-160 and some of the other rosewood BR models would look like my 2 on the sides and backs. I stand corrected....... That outer wood sure is purty though. Last Edited By: intune66 10/30/08 09:01 PM. Edited 1 times.
Larry124		#17	[-]
Posts: 152 (11/01/08 06:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I thought that Cocobolo was as expensive as BRW. And also a very heavy wood that would add noticeable extra weight to a guitar.
dmcowles		#18	[-]
Posts: 2044 (11/02/08 04:11 AM) Admin Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cocobolo is costly, but not as pricey as BRW. It is also not yet on the C.I.T.E.S. list. As to the weight issue, cocobolo is dense and resinous, but we're talking about laminated woods here. Most laminated guitars aren't known for being feather light. I'm not completely sure the Blueridge "BRW" laminates are cocobolo, but they certainly are not BRW, IMHO. Cocobolo is a very difficult wood to work with, and the sawdust from it causes some serious respiratory and allergic reactions. I'm inclined to think these guitars are laminated pau ferro, mainly due to the coloration and landscaping of the wood, but I'm certainly no expert. Dave You forget it and I'll forget it, but I'll remember it, and don't you forget it!
TaylorMartinGuild.theunofficialma...		#19	[-]
Posts: 166 (11/02/08 11:54 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I don't know exactly what the back and side wood is on my BR-63 but it sure it purdy!
intune66		#20	[-]
Posts: 563 (11/02/08 12:32 PM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	TaylorMartinGuild wrote: I don't know exactly what the back and side wood is on my BR-63 but it sure it purdy! It is a really nice added touch to what you generally see on the sides and back on guitars. I like it as much as I like the the way they sound....... The book-matching is flawless on both of mine. Eye-catching stuff, like you said. Ryan

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Adi Top on Laminate Wood Guitar?

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